tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post8924797721201931776..comments2024-03-29T01:30:47.656-04:00Comments on Seen Through a Glass: Is "Craft Beer" a revolution? Is it a success?Lew Brysonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-68578697430585157722009-09-30T13:50:57.644-04:002009-09-30T13:50:57.644-04:00"Well, wierdly enough, I was thinking about Y..."Well, wierdly enough, I was thinking about YOUNG people when I mentioned my anecdotal evidence.<br /><br />Specifically all those people I talk to at the meet-greet part of the talks I give: most are in their late 20s and early 30s (only bec. of who hires me and the kinds of events I do). For the most part, they've never heard of anything other than Miller, Bud, or Coors. They're always amazed to discover there's another kind of beer out there.<br /><br />I suspect this is a "social" thing rather than an age thing: These tend to be affluent people who generally don't drink beer in business-social settings (they prefer spirits). For them, beer is something to drink in the backyard or while watching sports events on TV.<br /><br />For what it's worth. "<br /><br />----------------<br /><br />FWIW, The Rivertowne Pourhouse in Monroeville, PA is a HIT with the affluent "business folk" of the area. Myself and a number of my 20-something friends hit it up for happy hour after work regularly. We're huge fans, and almost always opt for it over a *chain* establishment like Mad Mex that serves mostly "Macro" beer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-84232391909158366082009-09-28T10:10:40.719-04:002009-09-28T10:10:40.719-04:00Well, wierdly enough, I was thinking about YOUNG p...Well, wierdly enough, I was thinking about YOUNG people when I mentioned my anecdotal evidence.<br /><br />Specifically all those people I talk to at the meet-greet part of the talks I give: most are in their late 20s and early 30s (only bec. of who hires me and the kinds of events I do). For the most part, they've never heard of anything other than Miller, Bud, or Coors. They're always amazed to discover there's another kind of beer out there.<br /><br />I suspect this is a "social" thing rather than an age thing: These tend to be affluent people who generally don't drink beer in business-social settings (they prefer spirits). For them, beer is something to drink in the backyard or while watching sports events on TV.<br /><br />For what it's worth.Maureen Oglehttp://www.maureenogle.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-22831257930185610462009-09-27T21:12:11.482-04:002009-09-27T21:12:11.482-04:00I think Maureen's general point about the limi...I think Maureen's general point about the limited future of craft beer might indeed be a good one (it's certainly one we could debate and come to no agreeable answer other than to wait and see). I think the anecdotal evidence that she has experienced (and indeed I have as well) actually largely relates to a single point of division: age. People under a certain age, say 35, grew up surrounded by craft beer or at least aware of its existence (or even unaware that it previously did not exist). Over that age, the pockets of knowledge/awareness of craft/better beer get much smaller. As the beer buying demographic continues to shift and the older groups phase out of buying beer (or die, to put it plainly), they'll be replaced with a more knowledgeable set of consumers. Whether craft/better beer producers can retain substantial percentages of these aging "young" consumers remains to be seen but I suspect they will. The cycle continues again as new generations of kids age (or get peer or perception pressured) into beer drinking and out of macro-beer. <br /><br />Once largely populated by old, fat dudes, the GABF (for example) is now a frat house by comparison. I don't know whether these kids drink craft when they're done boozing it up on the convention floor, but I imagine many do. These consumers are also finicky by nature and remain decidedly disloyal to a single brand. So with these trends, I think craft brewers have a great deal to be positive about regarding the future. The macro brewers, long propped up by brand loyalists are in a heap of trouble when a new generation of consumers views their products as a uniform offering.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />AndyAndy Crouchhttp://www.beerscribe.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-45221576735200345902009-09-26T22:21:09.284-04:002009-09-26T22:21:09.284-04:00I don't know if all the beer geeks say that ev...I don't know if all the beer geeks say that everyone drinks craft, but if they do, then clearly they're wrong!<br /><br />I think a remarkable number of people know that there is some kind of craft beer out there, even if they don't know what it is.<br /><br />Regarding market share, Jim Koch's NBWA speech has been all over the trades. He made a lot of interesting comments of interest mainly to wholesalers, but he also said that what he calls 'better beer' could grow to 1/3 of the business, with craft accounting for 1/3 of that, or about an 11 share, compared to today's 4.5 share.<br /><br />I see no reason why craft would ever have a really huge share because it costs a lot more than the regular stuff. I also don't expect gourmet cheese to ever dominate the market. These are specialty products, which by definition don't have huge market share.Jim Dorschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863605859633926393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-87606307500914786342009-09-26T15:56:15.593-04:002009-09-26T15:56:15.593-04:00"In any case (and I promise I'll shut up ..."In any case (and I promise I'll shut up after this), my main point in the AAB piece and the outtakes was that I was trying to debunk the notion, so widely held by the beer geeks, that "everyone drinks craft beer now."<br /><br /><i>Please</i> don't shut up!<br /><br />I agree with this main point 100%. As you said: outtakes. I was mainly quirking my eyebrow at the idea that most beer drinkers were not <i>aware</i> of craft beers...which I do not think is true at all. Drink them? No, the numbers make that clear. Know about 'em? Yeah. <br /><br />But I do disagree with the idea that the market will never go for craft in a much bigger way. Here's why:<br />http://www.lewbryson.com/avintagebook.htm <br />And the recent short portrait I did of Ron & Bill of Victory in BeerAdvocate Mag. <br /><br />In short? Wine is not all mega-vintners, making table wines in gallon jugs or fortified crap-ports flavored with lemonade. But it was. I don't know why beer can't go that way. Likewise, craft beer is not all IPAs and sours. Craft can be very approachable.<br /><br />I think the future is still happening. If it's taking longer to go our way, well, it takes miles for a supertanker to make a turn. Beer's a huge market.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-17113964490059737162009-09-26T12:35:45.802-04:002009-09-26T12:35:45.802-04:00Lew, some of what Maureen's saying was borne o...Lew, some of what Maureen's saying was borne out in your neighborhood recycling survey some time back, I think.sam knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-48036288393273965702009-09-26T10:09:36.399-04:002009-09-26T10:09:36.399-04:00I only used the term "craft beer" as a w...I only used the term "craft beer" as a way of identifying the "non-mainstream" beers that, in my experience, most people don't know about.<br /><br />Obviously, I have no way to quantify general ignorance (heh, not even my own...), so my assertion was anecdotal. <br /><br />But the larger point I was trying to make was that, if "craft beers" (or "non-mainstream beers") were more widely known for what they are (alternatives to mainstream), the market's segment would be larger than it is. More important, it would be larger than it was, say, 10 or 15 years ago. Which it's not.<br /><br />Finally, the outtakes I posted at my blog were just that. The first one of those makes more sense if it's read in conjunction with what ended up in print in the magazine. There's a certain amount of incoherence in what's at my blog because it was chopped off a larger argument.<br /><br />And yes, even I, in my small town in Iowa, can find quite a bit of "craft" beer. But those six-packs of Craft Whatever are dominated by the national brands (eg, Sam Adams, Sierra, Leinie) (which, yes, I know many people don't acknowledge as a true craft beer). In other words, the craft beers that have gone "mainstream."<br /><br />But at the end of the day, the grocery store shelves are still dominated by the mainstream brews.<br /><br />In any case (and I promise I'll shut up after this), my main point in the AAB piece and the outtakes was that I was trying to debunk the notion, so widely held by the beer geeks, that "everyone drinks craft beer now."<br /><br />Everyone doesn't. It's unlikely "everyone" ever will. And the form and structure of American brewing has not changed in thirty years: Dominant giants. Niche midgets.Maureen Oglehttp://www.maureenogle.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-13964887373475796672009-09-26T08:25:39.767-04:002009-09-26T08:25:39.767-04:00Good post and comments. Thank you for again decons...Good post and comments. Thank you for again deconstructing the BA's silly and not quite benign definition of 'craft brewery'. <br /><br />But (and you knew there might be a "but"), arguing that most people don't know or care about where a beer is made feeds into Maureen's argument that most people don't know or care about 'craft' beer in general. Once drinkers are made aware of freshness' crucial role in flavor, many do care.THOMAS CIZAUSKAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16485107199809830204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-51038761923872144392009-09-25T22:16:55.144-04:002009-09-25T22:16:55.144-04:00She says (that Michael said), “None can succeed fo...She says (that Michael said), “None can succeed for long unless the . . . idea of small breweries is understood and appreciated by the consumer.”<br /><br />Then she says: He was wrong. Thirty years in, most Americans don’t know about or drink craft beer, and yet craft brewing is alive and well.<br /><br />The second statement doesn't disprove the first. MJ didn't say that the majority of Americans need to understand small breweries. He referenced 'the consumer', and indeed there is a class of consumer that does understand and appreciate small breweries.Jim Dorschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863605859633926393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-15016102524497019862009-09-25T16:18:33.646-04:002009-09-25T16:18:33.646-04:00"I'm talking about people who drink any k...<i>"I'm talking about people who drink any kind of beer."</i><br /><br />To be sure -- I wasn't singling out my craft-brew-only drinking friends. <i>"People I know who like beer..."</i><br /><br />But then, maybe I'm being hypocritical, because I often say that what they're drinking really isn't beer.<br /><br />When I say one of these fests is sold out, we're talking thousands of people here, just for craft brew, whether they drink other beverages or not. Difficult to see that many people and say "obscure."Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10585545034172431563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-33387611367678571352009-09-25T15:25:32.068-04:002009-09-25T15:25:32.068-04:00I'd have to argue more for the side that it ha...I'd have to argue more for the side that it has been a revolution, or perhaps the more appropriate term would be "evolution". You have your beer folks here in NC who since the cap was lifted a few years back, have been able to buy pretty much any sort of beer they want. But what is less then obvious is the gentle push in restaurants, at the arenas, even in bars, of better quality beers. Heck I've even seen local and regional craft beers at local "performing art" places. One of my favorite locals does a booming business at the hockey games here. Side by side with the BMC stands. Point I'm trying to make is that with the greater availability of choices, people try things they may not have tried in the past. And a group of those people who end up liking what they try start seeking it out. So the "craft beer" revolution is evolving the folks around here into better beer drinkers in general!Glennnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-75407164515716773582009-09-25T14:05:21.782-04:002009-09-25T14:05:21.782-04:00True, though to be clear to all who are reading th...True, though to be clear to all who are reading this, I'm talking about people who drink <i>any</i> kind of beer. To say people who drink craft beer know about craft beer...well, you know. <br /><br />But yeah, you walk into a beer store today anywhere in the country and you're going to be hard-pressed to NOT find something other than the basic macros.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-47621098303375212192009-09-25T13:49:51.300-04:002009-09-25T13:49:51.300-04:00People I know who like beer know what craft beer o...People I know who like beer know what craft beer or micro-brewed beer is -- and drink it.<br /><br />As you said, Lew -- if you're interested, you know. That probably explains why the Great Lakes Brew Fest, I attended last week, was sold out, and the Quivey's Grove Beer Fest I'm attending next week is sold out.<br /><br />I'm no good at estimating crowds, but I've attended each fest for 6 to 10 years (depending on the fest) and the attendance just keeps growing.<br /><br />The number of different labels I see on shelves compared to 1985, when I first got into better beers (craft or otherwise), has to be a barometer too -- especially when I see grocers that stock the likes of BMC along with Sierra Nevada, Bell's, and Rogue -- not to mention Goose Island, Sam Adams, and Red Hook among regionals like Leinenkugel & Berghoff, and "mock" micros like wing-walker, and so many imports.<br /><br />Back in '85, I was lucky to find Bass and Guinness. Revolutionary.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10585545034172431563noreply@blogger.com