tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post2196587130050471430..comments2024-03-09T00:31:10.190-05:00Comments on Seen Through a Glass: BIPA: enough, alreadyLew Brysonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-63490977363173949932010-09-24T09:45:40.330-04:002010-09-24T09:45:40.330-04:00Sorry, but I confess I just find this line of thin...Sorry, but I confess I just find this line of thinking somewhat amusing. So now we're complaining that American brewers are too innovative, too much into making the next "big thing?" Has it been that long now since the exciting choices on the market consisted of light lager A, light lager B and light lager C... and on occasion, if we were feeling especially adventuresome, maybe we'll go for some of that exotic imported light lager from Holland?<br /><br />Given a choice, I'll happily put up with bewers that continue to try to push the envelope, even where (IMHO) the results are abject failures. As for complaining about brewers that hop the hell out of everything on planet, sorry you feel that way, but color me completely deaf to your siren cry. In fact, place me solidly in the camp of Tommy Nickels, who remarked during Lupulin Slam I that he kept on adding hops to his IPA, thinking it would eventually become too bitter for him, but that to date he still hadn't reached that point.<br /><br />Too many BIPA's on the market? Perhaps, but I'll gladly put up with that odious set of circumstances thank you very much. Funny thing, the more BIPA's that come on the market, the greater the likelihood I'll encounter a Bruery Mischief (a beer I just adore). So what if I have to kiss a thousand frogs to find a beer like that... and I'll tell you something else too. The reality is that most of the BIPA's I've encountered have been pretty damn good, and some of the takes on the style are as unusual as they are interesting. <br /><br />Each to their own Lew. Sometimes I'm in the mood for something solid as you put it (the Vautour Saison is indeed fantastic), but sometimes I'm in the mood to try one of New Belgium's Eric Leaps of Faith or even (in small quantities) some of Bruery's Black Tuesday.<br /><br />Just my two cents, but I truly do believe we are in the golden age of American Craft brewing, and I attribute that largely to the willingness of American Brewers to not only push the envelope, but to also refine and redefine particular styles. If you don't want to try the latest BIPA with some novel yeast strain, and with apricots and sage added, by all means push it over in my direction. Who knows... I just might like it.JohnM.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08630863956282168060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-32996986580769287342010-09-23T16:30:31.805-04:002010-09-23T16:30:31.805-04:00BIPA's haven't infested everywhere yet so ...BIPA's haven't infested everywhere yet so I would choose to decry the constant usage of "Imperial" and "Double".<br /><br />They may have been helpful descriptors of innovative styles a few years ago but now the terms have lost meaning to me and the beers seem too much of the same. When I started seeing imperial steam beers, I audibly said "can't they leave well enough alone?"<br /><br />At least with BIPA, I know what I am getting in my glass.Sean Inmanhttp://www.beersearchparty.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-48059805587766868752010-09-23T12:40:27.367-04:002010-09-23T12:40:27.367-04:00"Leave it to American brewers to turn hoppy B..."Leave it to American brewers to turn hoppy Belgian beers into a marketing tool!"<br /><br />YEARS ago when I first tried De Ranke XX Bitter I remarked (BPotts you may remember?) on Babblebelt that it came across as a "Belgian" IPA and people thought I was retarded. Wait. What?<br /><br />Damn I should've trademarked that.Lorenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13913987288354432001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-36413187982751636582010-09-23T10:15:56.268-04:002010-09-23T10:15:56.268-04:00Loren, how about a
Pale Black IP(ale)A? :-)Loren, how about a<br /> Pale Black IP(ale)A? :-)Bob "Now go have a beer" Paolinonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-74956308624820797792010-09-23T08:54:04.084-04:002010-09-23T08:54:04.084-04:00Loren - lol.
I think its worth noting that Poperi...Loren - lol.<br /><br />I think its worth noting that Poperings Hommel Bier and De Ranke XX Bitter have been around for awhile, long before the Belgian IPA craze ever existed. The "style", if one would like to call it that, has been around for a long time, dare I say centuries (considering XX is probably somewhat like what saison was like 300 years ago).<br /><br />Leave it to American brewers to turn hoppy Belgian beers into a marketing tool!BPottshttp://www.dockstreetbeer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-3243724105330036272010-09-23T08:26:23.823-04:002010-09-23T08:26:23.823-04:00From the press release: "...I've been pas...From the press release: "...I've been passionate about creating unique and interesting brews that challenge the perception of what beer can be," said Jim Koch, founder and brewer of Samuel Adams beer. "This year we asked homebrewers to push the boundaries and brew their own one-of-a-kind beers. I was very impressed by the quality and creativity of the homebrew entries submitted to this year's Samuel Adams Longshot American Homebrew Contest - Category 23"<br /><br />I guess he wasn't so much impressed with the creativity than the ability to copy current trends in order to sell beer.<br /><br />Way to inspire creativity in the homebrew community Jim.LStaffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-34736258090515024552010-09-23T07:17:04.771-04:002010-09-23T07:17:04.771-04:00Good topic Lew. But most think the only game out t...Good topic Lew. But most think the only game out there is Follow The Leader and there's no such thing as Lead The Followers. And remember too, if there weren't lemmings in the world (just wait...they'll eventually fall to their death) think of the overpopulation?!?!<br /><br />BTW, Black Belgian IPAs are the next trend. Called it.<br /><br />Cheers!Lorenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13913987288354432001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-26976387878449007182010-09-22T21:34:27.399-04:002010-09-22T21:34:27.399-04:00Katy said: "Nonetheless, if there is one thin...Katy said: "Nonetheless, if there is one thing Americans can be counted on to do it's either to take a good idea and run it into the ground or take a bad one and run it into the ground."<br /><br />LOL. <br />This would be funny if it weren't so true!<br />Katy has hit the nail on the head.The Professornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-88652248417406121962010-09-22T18:34:27.266-04:002010-09-22T18:34:27.266-04:00Shit Lew....Lets make a Double, Quad, Imperial, dr...Shit Lew....Lets make a Double, Quad, Imperial, dry hopped, American IPA. Oh and smoked too. Great post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-41440598570753262502010-09-22T15:12:49.883-04:002010-09-22T15:12:49.883-04:00A bit late to the game, but this phenomenon is no ...A bit late to the game, but this phenomenon is no different in wine or food. How many damned restaurants were serving sun-dried tomatoes and goat cheese in the 80s? And as far as wine goes, look at how "old-world" wineries are now aiming to make more fruit-forward, overripe, oaky messes simply to please the cola-drinking American consumer? Trends are inescapable, and the only ones that ever really make a mark are those who innovate. Nonetheless, if there is one thing Americans can be counted on to do it's either to take a good idea and run it into the ground or take a bad one and run it into the ground.Katiehttp://www.gonzogastronomy.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-53959992922671474972010-09-22T14:06:34.987-04:002010-09-22T14:06:34.987-04:00Gonna have that beer now?Gonna have that beer now?Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-7546784436348744862010-09-22T13:45:28.039-04:002010-09-22T13:45:28.039-04:00Lew, my point in mentioning (perhaps for the bene...Lew, my point in mentioning (perhaps for the benefit of those who didn't otherwise know) that this year's Longshot was specialty/experimental only (Category 23) is that this year's result was *assured* to be what some would consider to be weird, gimmicky, or non-traditional, rather than a well-done traditional style, such as the well-made light German lager to which we awarded regional Best-of-Show a few years ago. A beer like that wasn't eligible for the competition this time, so the chance of the winner being something like a B (Belgian or Black) IPA was much higher.<br /><br />(Of course, some entrants made lame attempts at justifying entries with bogus special ingredients or techniques, including "brewed with love," using melted ice for water, IPA with extra hops.... We disqualified those kinds of entries.)Bob "Now go have a beer" Paolinonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-25056257771959178902010-09-22T09:55:26.130-04:002010-09-22T09:55:26.130-04:00I do agree with Lew's point, that when everyon...I do agree with Lew's point, that when everyone jumps on the bandwagon with poor imitations, it lessens the accomplishments of the few brewers who have actually crafted a good example of the style. However, it is indeed a business and although folks like us may scoff at bandwagon jumpers, the owners probably don't have to think twice about whose opinion they valuse more: folks like us critiquing them online, or the 400 people lined up outside their brewery for the privilege of buying a bottled of a botched experiment on release day. sad but true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-49503259080947933452010-09-21T21:14:11.769-04:002010-09-21T21:14:11.769-04:00While not opposed to "gimmicky" beers as...While not opposed to "gimmicky" beers as such (as Martyn said, who knows when a classic may appear?), brewers need IMO generally to focus on making high quality pale ales, lagers, porters, stouts and the other traditional styles. Too much of the output I see is, well, average (or worse). True, there are stars in the categories I mentioned, but how high is the overall standard, really? It is much better than 20 years ago when e.g., extract and/or infected brews were common, but there is still a way to go. <br /><br />I say, master the basic styles first before exploring exotica. That is good business strategy too, because it focuses on the long term.<br /><br />All this said, I enjoy a good black IPA, or pumpkin stout (an emerging style with great potential IMO). If it's good, it's good.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-23465330276034061092010-09-21T20:41:20.027-04:002010-09-21T20:41:20.027-04:00THANK YOU, Lew! As an American brewer I am gettin...THANK YOU, Lew! As an American brewer I am getting tired of sounding like a hypocrite bashing American brewing practices. You hit the nail on the head - take a perfectly acceptable, enjoyable, drinkable style and HOP THE CRAP OUT OF IT. Belgian IPAs. In reality, IPAs in general. Go have a real English IPA - that's a beautiful, balanced beer dammit. Or, worse yet, take a good beer style, hop the crap out of it, and oh, yeah, let's add debittered black malt! Another new style! Yaay America! Personally, I'd like to see more American brewers try their hand at really crafting a true classic style - not crying innovation but displaying their skill, in say, a perfectly balanced Dortmunder or Scottish 60/. There are enough guys trying it - but look at the BA list of top Pilsners. Prima Pils? More hops than all of Washington state. Almost twice as many BUs as Pilsner Urquell. Scottish ales made with peated malt (WRONG!). American brewing has become more about ego and less about beer. Sorry - off my soapbox now.Darelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-83041828945050086982010-09-21T20:20:41.378-04:002010-09-21T20:20:41.378-04:00With all this next greatest thing chasing that goe...With all this next greatest thing chasing that goes on, I wonder how it is possible that my beer drinking highlights this year have been solid, classic versions of great beer "styles", both from Devils Backbone and both the kind of thing you could drink many pints of.<br /><br />Sure the big, bold and downright weird has its place, but I go to the pub to drink rather than experience.Alistair Reecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929927359428659775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-42804567067522735592010-09-21T19:58:18.691-04:002010-09-21T19:58:18.691-04:00I can't tell the difference between when you s...I can't tell the difference between when you speak your opinion and the sound of a fartAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-12616955941459224702010-09-21T19:25:15.935-04:002010-09-21T19:25:15.935-04:00Haven't seen you rant like this in a while, it...Haven't seen you rant like this in a while, it's refreshing ;-) Interesting discussion, just want to throw a couple of cents of mine out here. FWIW I'm writing this while drinking a bourbon barrel stout (I'm thinking barrel's are getting to be a "gimmick" too lately)<br /><br />What's a brewer to do?? If he perfects his craft and has two or three perfectly respectable "standard" beers, he'll sell them to most of his accounts. Don't forget guys this is a business to make beer that people will buy. So the brewer puts together some sort of special double/triple black, barrel aged belgian something to make a name for their brewery and only bottles it once a year..and now all of a sudden they have a following who camp out to get the beer on release day... Some might call that good marketing? And along the way they sell more of their standard beer because of the following for their special beer?? Just my 2 cents....Glennnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-62052030688201036972010-09-21T17:57:32.970-04:002010-09-21T17:57:32.970-04:00As a Phoenician, I'd be happy to drink a credi...As a Phoenician, I'd be happy to drink a credible locally produced Saison.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05517937508601507605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-22645484832284141752010-09-21T17:27:41.393-04:002010-09-21T17:27:41.393-04:00Completely unrelated: session cocktails! http://w...Completely unrelated: session cocktails! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/19/FD6S1FC2PI.DTL&type=wine<br /><br />Bill, who's too lazy to re-log in under his Google IDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-71906433473575380792010-09-21T16:54:52.390-04:002010-09-21T16:54:52.390-04:00I think it's pretty difficult to attribute mot...I think it's pretty difficult to attribute motive to the brewers who "follow" a trend. I'd bet that the vast majority of those who bring these to market are all pretty jazzed about their interpretation. Remember that most folks don't try dozens of these things! As Dante also said, "Charley, they don't want beer with great taste, they want beer that tastes great." Wasn't that Dante?Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03634642987617262810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-47044966986127937152010-09-21T16:51:30.883-04:002010-09-21T16:51:30.883-04:00RE: The American demand for Belgian beer, that is ...RE: The American demand for Belgian beer, that is interesting. I would not be surprised to see the US as one of the top export markets for Belgian beer after France and the UK I have not seen a lot of Belgian beer in Germany (not sure how they can close the market to intra EU exports), but you just don't see it same goes for Holland and Italy to be honest aside from Stella I have not seen a lot of Belgian Beer in the UK either. It seems to me a lot of those smaller Belgian breweries might have found a real niche market and the US which provides them with their best margins.jpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-25093186971304857132010-09-21T15:50:04.914-04:002010-09-21T15:50:04.914-04:00Barm,
I'd like for brewing to be different, pa...Barm,<br />I'd <i>like</i> for brewing to be different, particularly craft brewing. That's how we progress. <br /><br />As for your other point...are none of the beers mentioned sold in Belgium? I hear wildly opposite reports on the importance of the American market to Belgian brewers: it keeps them alive, it's minuscule. Honestly, I don't know who to believe (and I don't believe anything I read about it on the Internet).Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-84534212366188798472010-09-21T15:47:35.051-04:002010-09-21T15:47:35.051-04:00Bob...after that 'clarification,' I'd ...Bob...after that 'clarification,' I'd advise you to follow your sobriquet's advice.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7315262155858800734.post-45341094209423026412010-09-21T15:46:21.581-04:002010-09-21T15:46:21.581-04:00Sandy,
Kinda my point: they're not just chasin...Sandy,<br />Kinda my point: they're not just chasing the latest, they're chasing the latest whisker of a percent of interest. Black IPA would make more sense, IMO, but that might be a personal thing. Making a really great IPA would be smarter. Making it consistently great would be brilliant. As far as the <i>average</i> beer drinker goes, witbier is somewhat exotic. Which is fine.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.com